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II - 191
1 A.
Like eight hours or a long time, I don't know exact.
2 Q.
Was it the same amount of time every day?
3 A.
Yes, sir.
4 Q.
You didn't vary the amount of time you worked at any
5 time?
6 A.
No, sir.
7 Q.
What time did you get up in the morning?
8 A.
I got up once at 4:45 in the morning and I got up at
9 3:15 in the mornings
stacking wood.
10 Q. And
now why would you get up at 3:15?
11 A. I
don't know. I guess they are just being mean.
12 Q. And
what did you do after you got up at 3:15? On that
13 day that you got up at
3:15, can you just tell the jury what
14 you did during that day?
15 A. I got
up and I stacked wood back and forth, just back
16 and forth. And also,
I don't know, I got a big gouge on my
17 leg when I wasn't hauling
wood fast enough.
18 Q. Now,
can you tell us when you got up, what time did you
19 start hauling wood?
20 A. They
gave us 15 minutes to get ready, so I started
21 3:45 -- I don't know the
exact time, about 3:45.
22 Q.
Okay. And did you go to breakfast?
23 A. Yes,
sir, when everybody else went.
24 Q. So
when you went to breakfast, how long had you been
25 hauling wood?
II - 192
1 A.
We went to breakfast at seven -- yeah, we went to
2 breakfast at seven,
so three hours.
3 Q.
What did you do after breakfast?
4 A.
Went back and stacked wood.
5 Q.
How long did you get to eat breakfast?
6 A.
Twenty minutes. And sometimes I had to stand in the
7 corner.
8 MR.
OLIVER: Your Honor, does this have something to
9 do with this
case? Objection, it's irrelevant, immaterial.
10 The specific acts not
rebutting anything.
11 MR.
STILLEY: This is just what I told the Court was
12 going to come out.
13 THE
COURT: Well, fine. Let's move on with it.
14 MR.
STILLEY: Certainly.
15
THE COURT: Okay. Because we're
talking about hours
16 and so forth, that's what
you indicated to me you were going
17 to talk about.
18 BY MR. STILLEY:
19 Q. And
how long did you haul wood after breakfast?
20 A. Are
you during school or --
21 Q. Well,
did you go to school that day?
22 A. No,
sir, I stacked wood during school.
23 Q. You
stacked wood during school hours?
24 A.
Yeah. And they had people in school going from shifts
25 to watch me.
II - 193
1 Q.
And what did you call the people that watched you?
2 A.
They called them orientation guides.
3 Q.
And how long -- did you get a mid morning break?
4 A.
One break, yes, sir.
5 Q.
In the mid morning?
6 A.
Mid morning, like at 11 I got a break.
7 Q.
Okay. How long was that break?
8 A.
Five minutes.
9 Q.
And what did you get to do at that break?
10 A. Pee
and use the rest room and wash my hands and stuff
11 and get a drink of water.
12 Q. Did
you get a lunch break?
13 A. When
everybody else went to lunch, I got a lunch break.
14 Q. And
how long was the lunch break?
15 A.
Thirty minutes.
16 Q. And
what did you do after lunch?
17 A. Went
back and stacked wood.
18 Q. And
how long did you stack wood?
19 A. Till
five o'clock.
20 Q. Did
you stop stacking wood at five o'clock?
21 A. Well,
sometimes I went in and got for showers at five
22 but then sometimes I
stayed until dinner, and we left for
23 dinner at six.
24 Q. On
this day when you got up at 3:15, did you quit the
25 wood stacking at 5 p.m.?
II - 194
1 A.
The wood stacking in the morning?
2 Q.
No, at five in the afternoon.
3 A.
Sometimes, yes, sir. Sometimes I would stay till
4 shower. I mean,
sometimes I would stay till dinner. I would
5 go to dinner and then
go back and take a shower.
6 Q.
Were you ever forced to carry the wood faster than you
7 were trying to carry
the wood?
8 A.
Yes, sir.
9 MR.
OLIVER: Your Honor --
10 THE
COURT: I'll sustain this. We're talking about
11 hours. Now you're
talking about fast.
12 MR.
STILLEY: I'm not what?
13 THE
COURT: You're talking about how fast. We're
14 talking about hours.
15 MR.
STILLEY: I'm talking about --
16 THE
COURT: We understand that you're saying that
17 this is work. Now
you want to talk about how fast.
18 MR.
STILLEY: Well, actually --
19 THE
COURT: There is an objection. I am sustaining
20 that. Okay.
21
MR. STILLEY: Judge, can I
revisit that then after
22 the conclusion, total
conclusion of the case?
23 THE
COURT: We'll talk about it.
24 BY MR. STILLEY:
25 Q.
Okay. You told us about a specific day. Was this a
II - 195
1 typical day?
Did you typically get up before 4 a.m.?
2 A.
Yes, sir. I was pretty much getting up at 4:45 a.m.
3 On 4:45 a.m. Monday
through Friday for like a month.
4 Q.
Okay. And did you haul wood each day, Monday through
5 Friday?
6 A.
Yes, sir. And actually I hauled it Saturday too.
7 Q.
And how many weeks did this go on?
8 A.
For like three to four weeks. And then if I did good
9 hauling wood, they
took me off.
10 Q. All
right. Now, did you get taken off after three or
11 four weeks at Mountain
Park?
12 A. Yes,
sir. I was on the wood stacks off and on, off and
13 on.
14 Q. And
why did you get taken off the wood stacking?
15 A.
Because I guess I got good problems -- I didn't have
16 any problems.
17 Q. And
then did you get put back on wood stacking?
18 A. Yes,
sir.
19 Q. Why
did that happen?
20 A.
Because I wouldn't eat -- I don't know.
21 Q.
Because what?
22 A. I
guess -- why did I get put back on wood time the
23 second time?
24 Q. Yes,
the second time.
25 A. The
second time I was eating breakfast and Mr. Bo
II
- 196
1 Gerhardt told me to
eat my --
2 MR.
BRIGGS: Objection.
3 MR.
OLIVER: This is the other example of --
4 MR.
STILLEY: Your Honor, I'm just trying to show
5 why he was put back.
6 THE COURT:
No, you aren't. Please. Talk about the
7 hours that he
worked. You want to show other things. We're
8 talking about hours.
9 MR.
STILLEY: And nothing about the reason that he
10 went back on?
Because the defendant said that the
11 corrective --
12 MR.
OLIVER: Come on, Your Honor, he's making
13 speaking objections.
He's testifying to the jury.
14 MR.
STILLEY: I'm happy to come up. I don't have a
15 problem.
16 THE
COURT: The hours. The hours.
17 MR.
STILLEY: And nothing about anything else?
18 THE
COURT: Well, I don't want to get into the
19 details of it.
20 MR.
STILLEY: Okay.
21 BY MR. STILLEY:
22 Q. From
the time you were first taken off of the wood
23 carrying detail until the
second time that you were on the
24 wood carrying detail, how
long was that?
25 A. Like
eight to nine hours. I had to wake up at 4:45 in
II
- 197
1 the morning. I
stayed there till breakfast, which was seven.
2 And then after that I
went back and stacked wood till lunch,
3 and went to
lunch. And then after that I stacked wood till
4 five o'clock.
5 Q.
But I'm trying to find out, it sounds like that you
6 were actually off the
wood cutting detail for several days?
7 A.
Yeah.
8 Q.
How many days were you off the wood cutting detail
9 before you got put
back on?
10 A. Oh,
two to three weeks.
11 Q. All
right. And when you were put back on -- wait a
12 minute, scratch
that. For this two or three weeks, did you
13 go to class during that
period of time?
14 MR.
OLIVER: Come on, Your Honor, objection.
15 A. No,
sir, I stood in the corner. I was only
16 approximately in school
for like a month the whole time I was
17 there.
18 Q. Now,
when got back to wood cutting duty, how long were
19 you --
20 THE
COURT: Why don't you try to summarize this.
21 MR. STILLEY:
I'm trying to summarize it to the
22 extent that I can.
23 THE
COURT: No, you are not.
24 MR.
STILLEY: We've got a young witness.
25 THE
COURT: Please. Stop begging up here. You're
II - 198
1 begging. What
I'm saying is hours. You're trying to go
2 through the
minutiae. Talk about hours. You told me that
3 you had a witness who
could say something different about the
4 hours of work, and
that someone was on discipline for longer,
5 for this six-month
period or something. So let's hear the
6 substance of that,
not every little point and stop on the
7 road. You want
to tell me about every stop on the road from
8 here to way
someplace, you know, every little -- every little
9 town. Don't
want to hear about that. Give me the hours that
10 you told me you were going
to give me and so forth. Give me
11 what you told me you were
going to give me.
12 BY MR. STILLEY:
13 Q. Mr.
Palmer, can you tell the jury, just explain to the
14 jury how many -- the start
and stop times of your work as a
15 wood hauler, so that
they'll have an understanding of how
16 many hours that you had to
work at this job.
17 A. I
woke up at 4:45 in the morning.
18 Q.
Excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm not asking you to go into
19 great detail because
you've already told us about the
20 details.
21 A. Oh,
okay.
22 Q. I'm
just trying to get a summary so that the jury will
23 have an understanding.
24 THE
COURT: How many hours did he work a week? How
25 many weeks did he
work? How many days of the week did he
II - 199
1 work? You know,
that's what I'm talking about.
2 MR.
STILLEY: That's what I'm trying it get to.
3 THE COURT:
Then get on to that. It's not
4 difficult.
5 MR.
STILLEY: Okay.
6 BY MR. STILLEY:
7 Q.
So about how many hours a week did you work at wood
8 hauling?
9 A.
I worked eight to nine hours a day. I don't know.
10 Q. Times
six days?
11 A. I
worked Monday through Saturday and sometimes Sunday.
12 Q. And
how many weeks of work did you do while you were
13 there?
14 A. The
math you mean? Eight times six.
15 Q. I'm
not asking about the math on that. I'm just asking
16 approximately how many
weeks that you actually worked there.
17 What I'm trying to do is
get you to exclude the times when
18 you were allowed to go to
class and the times that you were
19 forced to stand in the
corner. And just tell the jury about
20 how many weeks that you
were on the wood hauling detail.
21 A. I was
on and off and on. I was on like a month and
22 then I was on it for like
three weeks. And if I wasn't
23 stacking wood, I was
standing in the corner.
24 Q. Well,
you told me about a month. You told me about
25 three weeks. Any
other times?
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