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II -
171 1 with us for many years. 2 Q.
I take it then you didn't have anything to do with the 3 formulation of the policy? 4 A.
That policy was in place when I came to work in the 5 ministry of Mountain Park. 6 Q.
Has it changed since that time? 7 A.
No, sir, it has not. 8 Q.
Now, you talked about physical education, correct? 9 A.
Yes, sir. 10 Q.
There is no formal lesson plan for physical education? 11 A.
There is no formal education plan for physical 12 education, no, sir. 13 Q.
There is nothing in writing from which a parent could 14 see that physical education might
include tasks normally 15 associated with work, is there? 16 A.
No, I'm afraid there's not anything in writing.
It is 17 discussed with the parents during
orientation. 18 Q.
And how do you know that? 19 A.
Because I conduct most of the orientation. 20 Q.
Do you have a checklist? 21 A.
Mental checklist. 22 Q.
So you check off in your mind what you told the 23 parents? 24 A.
I know what I talk to every parent about when they 25 enroll their students, yes, sir.
II
- 172 1 Q.
There is no agricultural program, agriculture 2 instruction program at Mountain Park
or Palm Lane, is there? 3 A.
No, sir, not in a formal sense there is not. 4 Q.
You're involved in formulating policy, at least some 5 policies at Mountain Park and Palm
Lane, correct? 6 A.
Yes. 7 Q.
And is it against -- 8 A.
At Mountain Park? 9 Q.
At Mountain Park. 10 A.
Yes. 11 Q.
And at Mountain Park it is against the policy for the 12 students to have a copy of the
handbook, correct? 13 A.
Against the policy for the students to have a copy of 14 the handbook? I cannot say that. 15 Q.
What's the policy regarding students having a handbook? 16 A.
I don't recall a student ever asking for a handbook. 17 Q.
If they asked, would they get it? 18 A.
I'm not sure. I guess I'd have to
consider who, what, 19 why, and how. There's a reason for that. 20 Q.
And do you mind telling us what the reason is? 21 A.
Certainly, yes, sir. Part of the
training program is 22 for the students to learn step by
step, day by day. And they 23 learn that in the day-to-day
instruction and the day-to-day 24 process of being a part of the
ministry between the lessons 25 being given in the school, between
instructions given by
II - 173 1 orientation guides, other students,
the peer pressure, the 2 instructions that they receive from
the staff that work with 3 them right there hand to hand on the
day-by-day basis. 4 Q.
Is it fair to say then that the student is expected to 5 just take staff's word on what the
rules are? 6 A.
Yes, sir, that's correct. 7 Q.
And they have no way to rebut the staff's word on what 8 the rules are, correct? 9 A.
No, sir, that's incorrect. 10 Q.
What's the truth of the matter? 11 A.
The truth of the matter is my office is located in a 12 central location on the campus. The students have easy 13 access to me. All the students are fully aware that if they 14 had a question or problem with a staff
member, whether it 15 was -- whoever it was, one of my
family or whoever it might 16 be, all the students understand that
they have a problem, a 17 question, they think they've been
mistreated, they think 18 they've been done wrong by anybody,
student or staff, they 19 can come see me wherever they feel a
need to. Oftentimes 20 they'll drop a little note. 21
I have a little box outside my door, they'll drop a 22 note, Brother Gerhardt, I need to see
you, I have a problem. 23 Sometimes they'll walk in the office
right, you know, just at 24 whatever time. And all the students know. For instance, a 25 new student who happened to be on
orientation, if they said
II - 174 1 to their guide, I want to see Brother
Gerhardt and I want to 2 see him right now, then that guide
would have the 3 responsibility to take them to
whatever staff is there with 4 them out and about or in the school
and they are to see that 5 they get to me as quickly as they can
get them to me. 6 Q.
So you're telling the jury you have an open door 7 policy? 8 A.
Oh, yes, sir, I do. 9 Q.
And any student can come to speak to you without fear 10 of repercussion? 11 A.
That's true, yes, sir. 12 Q.
Has a student ever come and say I don't think a rule 13 requires a certain thing? 14
MR. BRIGGS: Your Honor, I'm not quite
sure where 15 this is leading. I'm not sure it was given on direct, and it 16 relates to direct. I'll object to relevance. 17
MR. STILLEY: He talked about the -- 18
THE COURT: You know, how far do we go
down the 19 road?
You know, we're going down a road, you know, the door 20 is kind of open there. How far you going?
You know, how far 21 do we go? 22
MR. STILLEY: I'm almost there. I'm almost there. 23
THE COURT: Where you might be going might be beyond 24 where we need to go. 25
MR. STILLEY: I don't think it is.
II - 175 1 THE COURT: Let's see. Go
ahead. 2 BY MR. STILLEY: 3 Q.
Okay. Mr. Gerhardt, do you remember
the question? 4 A.
Please ask it again. 5 Q.
Have you ever had a student come to your office and say 6 I think I'm being required to do
something that isn't called 7 for by the rules? 8 A.
I don't know that a student has ever come to my office 9 and made a statement like you just
stated. 10 Q.
Has a student ever come to your office and gotten into 11 a discussion such that it was
necessary to show the student 12 the rules? 13 A.
To show the student the rules? No,
sir. 14 Q.
Now, on direct examination you spoke a little bit about 15 the document that was used to enroll
Jordan Blair, did you 16 not? 17 A.
Yes, sir. 18 Q.
And do you see where I've marked at the bottom, it says 19 on top, date of enrollment, correct? 20 A.
Where you marked on the bottom of the page, the top 21 line?
I understand what you're asking now. Yes,
sir, it 22 says date of enrollment 10/24/01. 23 Q.
And on the bottom it says date of withdrawal, 11/10/01, 24 correct? 25 A.
Yes, sir, obviously a mistake on the date. Oh,
excuse
II - 176 1
me, I'm sorry, 11/10/01, yes, sir, that's correct.
I'm 2 sorry. 3 Q.
And to your knowledge there are no documents signed by 4 plaintiff Jordan Blair's parents
enrolling their son at Palm 5 Lane Academy, correct? 6
MR. BRIGGS: Objection, Your Honor,
relevance. It's 7 outside the scope of direct. 8
MR. STILLEY: The defendants are trying
to say that 9 because they have permission, they can
compel work without 10 having any liability to pay for the
work. And I'm trying to 11 demonstrate that there were no
documents signed by the 12 patients enrolling Mr. Blair in Palm
Lane. 13 THE COURT: That don't have anything to do with 14 liability for work. I mean, that's not part of the 15 definition of employee/employer. That doesn't get into that. 16 Parental, that has nothing to do with
the parents. 17
MR. STILLEY: Okay. Well, that's reasonable. But I 18 would still -- 19
THE COURT: I know you still, you
always still. I 20 guess it got something to do with
battery, huh? 21
MR. STILLEY: The battery had already
been committed 22 then.
I don't think I can stretch that far, Judge. 23
THE COURT: Sustained. Move on. 24
MR. STILLEY: Thank you, Judge. 25 BY MR. STILLEY:
II - 177 1 Q.
Now, you said you went to Caroline University; is that 2 correct? 3 A.
Yes, sir, I received my degree from Caroline University 4 of Theology. 5 Q.
And what city is that located in? 6 A.
They've changed their location a couple times.
And 7 honestly, it didn't come to the top of
my head where they are 8 in Carolina. 9 Q.
Where were they at when you were there? 10 A.
As I say, I don't remember. I don't
remember the city 11 and state, it was a directed study
course. 12 Q.
Was it a home study course? 13 A.
Yes. 14 Q.
How long did it take you from start to finish on this 15 program? 16 A.
I finished my master's in about a year. 17 Q.
You got your bachelor there, correct? 18 A.
I completed my bachelor's work there, yes, sir. 19 Q.
And how long did it take? 20 A.
It took me many years to accomplish my bachelor's 21 degree.
I started in 1972 and took courses. And
over the 22 course of the years it was -- whenever
it was in the nineties 23 before I finally accomplished my
bachelor's. 24 Q.
And you testified -- okay, thank you very much.
That's 25 good.
Now, you testified on direct the purpose of work was
II - 178 1 to create a sense of accomplishment,
accountability, and 2 responsibility? 3 A.
Yes. 4 Q.
Isn't it true that you could accomplish those same 5 goals with certified programs? 6 A.
Oh, I'm sure you could, but that's not what we're 7 about.
We're not interested in the certified program.
We 8 just want to provide a safe secure
place and reach the kids 9 through Christ and teach them how to
work hard. And my daddy 10 didn't need it and his grandaddy
didn't need it, and we don't 11 see why we needed a certification of
some kind to teach a 12 young man how to work and the value of
work. 13 Q.
Well, isn't it fair to say that you could teach the 14 same values if the boys were paid for
their labors? 15
MR. BRIGGS: Objection, Your Honor,
that would call 16 for speculation. 17
THE COURT: Sustained. 18 BY MR. STILLEY: 19 Q.
Isn't it true that those same values could be taught in 20 a program in which the instructors
were certified? 21
MR. BRIGGS: Same objection, Your
Honor. 22
THE COURT: Sustained. 23 Q.
Now, I believe you said that your father-in-law does 24 all the hiring and firing? 25 A.
He has the final say on all hiring and firing, yes,
II - 179 1 sir. 2 Q.
Does he do all the hiring and firing? 3 A.
He may not physically do all the hiring firing himself 4 in person. He may use me, but I do not do anything without 5 conversation with him. So he is the authority. 6 Q.
Okay. Is it possible that somebody --
for example, 7 junior staff, who hires the junior
staff? 8 A.
No junior staff are hired or fired without the 9 authority and consent of Senior Pastor
Wills. 10 Q. Are
you frequently the person that consults with Pastor 11 Wills about that? 12 A.
Yes, I am. 13 Q.
You told us also on direct about the type of kids that 14 come to your facilities, correct? 15
A. Yes, sir. 16 Q.
Isn't it true that some of these kids are really pretty 17 good kids when they come in? 18 A.
The kids come to us because their parents have called 19 because there is some problem within
the home that mother and 20 daddy feel like they are not reaching
their child at home. 21 Most of the time when a parent calls
us, whatever the 22 behavior is in that parents' mind,
it's gone to a place that 23 they no longer have the ability to
control. And most often 24 after they've tried every other
resource. No parent calls us 25 and says will you take my child,
enroll my child in your
II
- 180 1 school knowing that they are sending
them miles, sometimes 2 states from home. They don't do that lightly. They've tried 3 often everything else. When a parent calls us, whether the 4 kid's had lots of problems or a few
problems, whatever those 5 problems are, the parent believes that
those problems are 6 beyond their ability to care for and
they leave their child, 7
they are losing control of the ability to raise and train 8 their child. 9
So, again, I said when we started that for some 10 folks we're a fence at the top of the
hill. For other folks 11 we're an ambulance at the bottom. Some kids come in great 12 kids.
They just got, you know, wobbling on the axles. 13 Others come in and it's just a real
tragic situation. 14 Q.
Well, isn't it true that some of these parents send 15 students to Mountain Park when there
is really no problem 16 with the student? 17 A.
No, sir. 18
MR. BRIGGS: Objection, Your Honor,
calls for 19 speculation. 20
MR. STILLEY: They've testified about
-- 21
THE COURT: You've asked and answered
that. Let's 22 move on. 23
MR. STILLEY: Okay. 24 BY MR. STILLEY: 25 Q. Oh, can you tell us the approximate percentage of your |
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