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1 taking this back road approach, or bootstrapping approach to

2 try to prove interstate commerce is inappropriate in this

3 case. Where the students came from to be enrolled in

4 Mountain Park doesn't create interstate commerce in itself.

5 THE COURT: His questions were talking about

6 communicating with each other and the parents. That's what

7 he was inquiring about.

8 MR. OLIVER: Obviously they communicated in

9 interstate commerce if they are from out of state. If he's

10 going where you -- I objected because he's going where you

11 barred him from going just like he has been during this

12 entire examination. I don't care where the students come

13 from. I'd be glad to stipulate that they write letters, put

14 them in the mail that go in interstate commerce.

15 THE COURT: Fine. Make the stipulation, then you

16 all move on. You got that?

17 MR. STILLEY: I don't have a problem with it. What

18 I want to do is establish not only do that, they take the

19 kids, and I think we can stipulate to this too, that they

20 take these kids from Missouri to Florida which crosses a

21 state line.

22 MR. OLIVER: I think she already testified to that.

23 THE COURT: What are you trying to do?

24 MR. STILLEY: I'm trying to cover all the bases,

25 that I make sure --

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1 THE COURT: He said he's going to stipulate to

2 interstate commerce. What more do you need?

3 MR. STILLEY: If he stipulates to interstate

4 commerce on this association, I'm happy.

5 MR. OLIVER: No, no, no. I'm not trying to be at

6 odds with the Court, but I'm willing to stipulate and she's

7 already testified that students were moved from Mountain Park

8 to Palm Lane. We agree that was in interstate commerce. We

9 agree that parents communicate from other states in to

10 Missouri and from Missouri and that children communicate from

11 Missouri to other states. We agree that children communicate

12 from Palm Lane to other states and that parents communicate

13 with children from other states to Palm Lane in Florida.

14 This isn't a dispute in this case. The letters prove that

15 that are already in evidence.

16 THE COURT: So what mode are you on?

17 MR. STILLEY: If they want to stipulate that they

18 are involved in interstate commerce, what I want to do is go

19 the next route to find out where they get the goods. They

20 transport goods across the state line to their facility.

21 MR. OLIVER: Mr. Stilley has a perverted view of

22 what the law is in this case. The question is whether or not

23 they produce goods in interstate or are an enterprise that

24 produces goods in interstate commerce, that's the exact

25 question in this case.

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1 MR. STILLEY: No, there is two things, there is

2 interstate and there is production of goods for interstate

3 commerce. And they are vastly different concepts. And I

4 know that they don't produce goods in the sense of a factory

5 that produces goods in interstate commerce. That's fine.

6 The question that I am trying to prove here or the

7 proposition is that they engage in interstate commerce. But,

8 like I said, if we could just get a stipulation that they are

9 a school as defined by the code section, and if we need to

10 get it, I can get it and show it to you.

11 MR. OLIVER: We don't agree they are that.

12 MR. STILLEY: Well, that leaves all these things in

13 evidence. And I think that I should be allowed to --

14 THE COURT: Well, if you all do have some partial

15 stipulation, let's put that on. And otherwise I'm going with

16 the evidence on interstate commerce. I'm going to let you do

17 it, okay.

18 MR. STILLEY: Do you want us to take a little bit of

19 time to work on that?

20 MR. OLIVER: Could I give this to Mrs. Wills?

21 MR. STILLEY: You want us to take a break and work

22 on that?

23 THE COURT: No. He don't need a break. He said it

24 all up here. He could get up here and say it. Since you

25 don't play golf, you don't understand. Mr. Briggs plays a

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1 little golf, don't you, Mr. Briggs?

2 MR. BRIGGS: Yes, sir.

3 THE COURT: He understands what Lee Trevino said.

4 You know what Lee Trevino told the amateur, have you heard

5 this before?

6 MR. BRIGGS: I haven't, Judge.

7 THE COURT: This amateur golfer, you know, an

8 amateur is not like a professional, he's playing with Lee.

9 And he asks Lee, "How should I hit this ball?" And Lee said,

10 "Miss it quick." You see what I'm saying, that's what I'm

11 talking about, so miss it quick. I haven't got all day.

12 MR. BRIGGS: Thank you, Judge.

13 (The following proceedings continued within the

14 hearing of the jury:)

15 MR. OLIVER: Your Honor, if it saves any time, the

16 defense is willing to stipulate and agree that from time to

17 time children from states other than Missouri registered and

18 enrolled in Mountain Park and come to Missouri from other

19 states. And from time to time as testified to by Mrs. Wills

20 those students, males have been moved with the permission of

21 their parents to Florida, to Palm Lane. And from time to

22 time students at Palm Lane with the permission of their

23 parents, which is in Florida, have been moved to Missouri.

24 That in both schools parents communicate from states other

25 than Missouri and Florida with the students and as shown by

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1 the evidence that we've already agreed to the 19 or 28

2 letters, that the students communicate with their parents in

3 states other than Missouri. In Florida, for instance, Jordan

4 Blair writes letters to his parents. There are 28 of them in

5 evidence. Patients write letters to Jordan Blair both at

6 Palm Lane and Mountain Park as the case may be.

7 THE COURT: Very well.

8 MR. STILLEY: Thank you, Judge.

9 BY MR. STILLEY:

10 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge as to whether

11 Mountain Park purchases goods that have been transported in

12 interstate commerce?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. You have no personal knowledge one way or the other?

15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. How about Palm Lane?

17 A. No, sir.

18 MR. STILLEY: Your Honor, could I have a moment with

19 my client?

20 THE COURT: Sure.

21 MR. STILLEY: Thank you.

22 Q. Does Mountain Park have official tax exempt status?

23 MR. OLIVER: Objection, Your Honor, churches aren't

24 required to have tax exempt status under IRS 506c.

25 THE COURT: Overruled. You may inquire.

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1 BY MR. STILLEY:

2 Q. Do you recall the question?

3 A. Say it again, please.

4 Q. Okay. Does Mountain Park have official tax exempt

5 status from the IRS?

6 A. Mountain Park Baptist Church has a tax exempt.

7 Q. And when did the IRS award that status?

8 A. When did it what?

9 Q. When was this status approved by the IRS?

10 A. Probably in the year '88 or '89.

11 Q. Do you have personal knowledge of that?

12 A. No, sir -- well, I'm talking about a tax exempt letter

13 stating the church is tax exempt.

14 Q. Right.

15 A. Uh-huh.

16 Q. Is that what you're talking about?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. You did get that letter?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. How about Palm Lane Academy, does it have the same

21 status?

22 A. Tax exempt, yes, sir.

23 Q. Do you remember when that status was achieved?

24 A. Probably about two years ago.

25 Q. Do you know why it took -- that Palm Lane was started

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1 in '97; is that correct?

2 A. We bought the property in '97, yes. The students we

3 didn't start taking until 2000.

4 Q. Do you know the reason that the exemption letter wasn't

5 gotten until a couple years ago?

6 A. Probably because my husband had had a heart attack and

7 he was just kind of slow in getting it going after his heart

8 attack.

9 Q. Do each of these organizations file tax returns as tax

10 exempt organizations?

11 MR. OLIVER: Your Honor, I object. He's asking

12 questions he knows the law doesn't require them to do.

13 You've already ruled this on September 23rd, 1993 (sic).

14 MR. STILLEY: I'm just trying to find out -- she

15 testified they had tax exempt status. I'm wanting to see if

16 they got that as a church.

17 THE COURT: Why? Curiosity sake.

18 MR. STILLEY: I think it goes to some of the issues

19 in this case about their claims of simply being -- trying to

20 help kids as opposed to being a profit enterprise.

21 THE COURT: I'm sustaining that.

22 BY MR. STILLEY:

23 Q. Do either of these organizations engage in any

24 political activities or support any political candidates?

25 MR. OLIVER: Objection.

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1 THE COURT: Sustained. You've got to focus on these

2 two issues here; battery and employer/employee relationship.

3 If something goes to show someone was an employer or not an

4 employer under the Fair Labor Standards, then that's fair

5 game. Or, you know, the kinds of activity that go on in

6 terms of work, whatever else. But please.

7 MR. STILLEY: As a matter of fact, I'm ready to pass

8 this witness.

9 MR. OLIVER: May it please the Court.

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. OLIVER:

12 Q. Mrs. Wills, when was Mountain Park established?

13 A. 1987.

14 Q. And let me show you from what's been marked for

15 identification as Defendant's Exhibit 9 a statement of the

16 purpose. Is that accurate? Tell the ladies and gentlemen of

17 the jury whether that fairly and accurately sets forth the

18 purpose of Mountain Park?

19 A. Yes, it does.

20 Q. Now, from that day forward has the purpose of Mountain

21 Park changed?

22 A. No, it hasn't.

23 Q. And when did you and Pastor Wills establish Palm Lane?

24 A. In 1997.

25 Q. From 1987 to 1997 who ran Palm Lane?

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1 A. Brother Wills and I did.

2 Q. Okay. And how did Brother Gerhardt get involved?

3 A. In the year 1993 Brother and Mrs. Gerhardt came to work

4 with us.

5 Q. And who told Brother Sam what to do?

6 A. Brother Wills.

7 Q. Who tells Brother Sam what to do now?

8 A. Brother Wills.

9 Q. And occasionally maybe Mrs. Wills?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. Who are the decision makers or who were the decision

12 makers in 2001 at Mountain Park? Who made the decisions?

13 Start with policy decisions.

14 A. Brothers Wills.

15 Q. Who was involved in the hiring and the firing?

16 A. Brother Wills.

17 Q. All right. Who had input into that?

18 A. Brother Sam and I.

19 Q. Who controlled the manner by which your staff behaved

20 themselves and set policy for staff behavior?

21 A. Brother Wills.

22 Q. And who had input into that?

23 A. Brother Sam and I.

24 Q. Anybody else?

25 A. No Sir.