II - 141

         1    A.    About what, sir?

         2    Q.    About teaching life skills to students.

         3    A.    That we felt it was important that they had good life

         4    skills.  I believe I said that, I don't know but I'll say

         5    that now.

         6    Q.    You have no formal program for that teaching, do you?

         7    A.    It is part of our mission and part of our program to

         8    teach our students good life skills which include teaching

         9    themselves clean and a good work ethic.  Yes, sir, that's

        10    part of our program.

        11    Q.    But it's not a formal part of your program, is it?

        12    A.    Yes, sir, it is a formal part of our program.

        13    Q.    Do the students get credit for that?

        14    A.    Not school credit, not academic credit.

        15    Q.    And you don't have any certified instructors.

        16    A.    Instructors in what, sir?

        17    Q.    In life skills.  What do you call it?  You tell the

        18    jury, what do you call this program that you're talking

        19    about?

        20    A.    Our overall program is both an academic and life skills

        21    program I suppose you could say.  I hold a teacher's

        22    certification if you're talking about certifications.

        23    Q.    Well, that's not for the academic in this life skills.

        24    Do you have any separate --

        25             MR. OLIVER:  Your Honor, I object.

                                                                    II - 142

         1             THE COURT:  Let's not argue with the witness.

         2             MR. STILLEY:  What?

         3             THE COURT:  Let's not argue.  Go ahead.  Just ask

         4    your question.

         5             MR. STILLEY:  Certainly.

         6    BY MR. STILLEY:

         7    Q.    You don't have any certified instructors who are

         8    certified in a program of life instruction or substantially

         9    the same as life instruction, correct?

        10    A.    Sir, I don't know what you mean by life instruction.

        11    Q.    And you don't have a certified program of training for

        12    life skills or life instruction, correct?

        13    A.    What do you mean by certified, sir?

        14    Q.    Well, certified as in an approved program or approved

        15    by some educational regulatory body as being a satisfactory

        16    program for providing an education of that sort.

        17    A.    Are you asking us -- are you asking me about

        18    accreditation, sir?

        19    Q.    I'm asking you if there's any certification on the

        20    program concerning the teaching of a life skills.

        21    A.    I don't understand the question, I'm sorry.

        22    Q.    But you can't testify that you do have any such

        23    certification, correct?

        24    A.    Not understanding what you're talking about, sir, I'm

        25    just not comfortable in answering yes or no.  I don't

                                                                    II - 143

         1    understand what you're talking about.

         2    Q.    Are your students taught things like welding or sanding

         3    or plumbing at Palm Lane?

         4    A.    They are taught how to do those things, yes, sir.

         5    Q.    But you don't have any certified instructors, do you?

         6    A.    To teach those particular things?

         7    Q.    Correct.

         8    A.    Not to my knowledge, no, sir.

         9    Q.    And you have no certified program in any of those

        10    courses of instruction, do you?

        11    A.    Once again, sir, I do not understand what you mean by

        12    certified.

        13    Q.    If you don't understand the question, just say I don't

        14    understand the question.

        15    A.    I don't understand the question.

        16    Q.    And Palm Lane gets no credit for anyone in the courses

        17    of welding or plumbing or similar courses, correct?

        18    A.    That is correct.

        19    Q.    And I take it that Palm Lane keeps no records of the

        20    time that is spent on work as opposed to the time that is

        21    spent in sports, correct?

        22    A.    Correct.

        23    Q.    Do you have any personal knowledge as to who formulated

        24    a policy of not keeping those records?

        25    A.    A policy of not doing something?

                                                                    II - 144

         1    Q.    Correct.

         2    A.    There is no policy that I know of.

         3    Q.    So just -- there's just no policy?

         4    A.    There's no policy saying that we don't keep records.

         5    Q.    Okay.  Is there any rule at Palm Lane that prohibits

         6    any student from keeping a log or a journal?

         7             MR. OLIVER:  It's outside the scope of direct.

         8             THE COURT:  I'll allow the question.

         9    A.    Restate the question, please.

        10    Q.    Is there any rule at Palm Lane that prohibits a student

        11    or limits a student from keeping a log or journal of

        12    activities?

        13    A.    No, sir, there is not.  This is not a rule.

        14    Q.    Are you positive of that?

        15    A.    As I said, there's not a rule.

        16    Q.    Okay.  Have the students ever been punished for keeping

        17    a log or a journal at Palm Lane?

        18    A.    Not to my knowledge.

        19    Q.    And if such punishment had taken place, would you have

        20    personal knowledge of it?

        21             MR. OLIVER:  Objection, Your Honor, it's outside the

        22    scope.  It's other acts.

        23             THE COURT:  Fine.  I'll sustain.

        24    BY MR. STILLEY:

        25    Q.    Now, when the boys went out and painted this fence,

                                                                    II - 145

         1    that improved the value of that property, correct?

         2    A.    It improved the looks of it, I don't know about the

         3    value.

         4    Q.    You don't know if that improved the value of the

         5    property?

         6    A.    I'm not an appraiser, sir, I don't know.

         7    Q.    Okay.  Do you have personal knowledge as to who owns

         8    the property that this fence is on?

         9    A.    No, sir, I do not.

        10    Q.    If you don't mind waiting until I get completed with

        11    the question before you answer.

        12    A.    I'm sorry.

        13    Q.    The court reporter would appreciate that if you do

        14    that.  Do you have any personal knowledge of the boys, any of

        15    the boys or girls being taken over to Bob or Betty Wills'

        16    residence to do work there?

        17    A.    Yes.

        18    Q.    Do you know who was benefited by that work?  Isn't it

        19    fair to say Bob and Betty Wills were benefited by that work?

        20    A.    Along with the students who volunteered to go, yes.

        21    Q.    And that work included things like lawn maintenance and

        22    polishing the boat and work on or in the house, correct?

        23    A.    Correct.

        24    Q.    And is it fair to say all that work benefited Bob and

        25    Betty Wills?

                                                                    II - 146

         1    A.    And also training the students, yes, sir.

         2    Q.    Did you ever get any personal benefit out of work that

         3    was performed by the students?

         4    A.    Other than the satisfaction of seeing them accomplish a

         5    job well done, no, sir.

         6    Q.    They never polished your car?

         7    A.    No, sir.

         8    Q.    Never worked at your house?

         9    A.    No, sir.

        10    Q.    Do you live on campus?

        11    A.    Yes, sir.

        12    Q.    Is your housing provided to you as part of your

        13    compensation?

        14    A.    Yes, sir.

        15    Q.    Do the students ever come to your house to do lawn

        16    maintenance or to clean your house?

        17    A.    No, sir.

        18    Q.    Never?

        19    A.    Never.

        20    Q.    Oh, on the welding or the plumbing or similar items, is

        21    there any formal lesson plan for those matters of

        22    instruction?

        23    A.    Not that I'm aware of.

        24    Q.    Do you have any personal knowledge as to the source of

        25    goods that are procured by Palm Lane?

                                                                    II - 147

         1    A.    What goods are those, sir?

         2    Q.    Such as food, other items that are used by Palm Lane?

         3    A.    Yes.

         4    Q.    Okay.  Do you know where they come from as a general

         5    rule?

         6    A.    We get our food from, most of our food comes from Sysco

         7    Corporation, they deliver our food.  Most of the

         8    miscellaneous items that we get for the students comes from

         9    Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, things of that nature.

        10    Q.    Now, you testified on direct about your disciplinary

        11    policy not written in stone, correct?

        12    A.    Yes, sir.

        13    Q.    It's not actually written in paper either, is it?

        14    A.    About most things it's written in the handbook.

        15    Q.    About most things?

        16    A.    Yes, sir.

        17    Q.    But the students are not allowed to have a copy of the

        18    handbook?

        19    A.    Their parents.

        20    Q.    But not the student?

        21    A.    No, sir.

        22    Q.    Isn't it true that Palm Lane makes a choice to do it,

        23    that Palm Lane only implement programs with certified

        24    programs and certified instructors and formal lesson plans

        25    for welding or plumbing?

                                                                    II - 148

         1    A.    Would you restate that, please.

         2    Q.    Isn't it possible if Palm Lane Academy was so inclined

         3    that Palm Lane Academy could institute formal programs with

         4    certified instructors, certified programs and formal lesson

         5    plans for subjects such as welding or plumbing?  Do you

         6    understand the question?

         7    A.    I suppose we could, yes, sir.

         8    Q.    Now, you said something about the pond digging.  And

         9    did I understand correctly you said it was for the boys'

        10    benefit that the pond was dug?

        11    A.    That was my understanding, yes.

        12    Q.    What's the basis of your personal knowledge concerning

        13    that?

        14    A.    My 10-year-old son and my 12-year-old son coming back

        15    to the house every day covered with mud was probably one

        16    reason I thought it was fun for them.

        17    Q.    That pond did actually improve the value of that

        18    property, correct?

        19    A.    No, sir, I don't think so.  Digging a hole in the

        20    ground would not improve the value.  Of course, once again,

        21    I'm not an appraiser.

        22    Q.    It didn't reduce the value of the property, did it?

        23    A.    I don't know.

        24             MR. STILLEY:  Judge, could I have a moment with my

        25    client?  Pass the witness.

                                                                    II - 149

         1             MR. OLIVER:  Your Honor, we offer C and D at this

         2    time.

         3             THE COURT:  Any objection?

         4             MR. STILLEY:  No objection.

         5             THE COURT:  It's received.

         6             MR. OLIVER:  We'll briefly -- I tried to zoom

         7    something, Judge, and messed up.  I was trying to do this too

         8    fast, I'm sorry.

         9                        REDIRECT EXAMINATION

        10    BY MR. OLIVER:

        11    Q.    The word accreditation was mentioned.  I call your

        12    attention to Exhibit 9 down at the bottom.  To your knowledge

        13    is Mountain Park accredited, and if so, how?

        14    A.    Mountain Park is accredited through the Association of

        15    Christian Children's Ministries International and Missouri

        16    Association of Christian Childcare Agencies and the School of

        17    Tomorrow.

        18    Q.    Okay.  Now, it's the same, little bit different down at

        19    Palm Lane, is it not?

        20    A.    Palm Lane is accredited.  It's registered with the

        21    State of Florida as a Type 2 facility, childcare facility, in

        22    accordance with the Florida Statute 409.176.  And it is

        23    accredited by the Florida Association of Christian Childcare

        24    Agency.

        25             MR. OLIVER:  Thank you very much, Your Honor.

                                                                    II - 150

         1             THE COURT:  Anything else?

         2             MR. OLIVER:  Not of this witness, Your Honor.

         3    Excuse me.

         4                         RECROSS-EXAMINATION

         5    BY MR. STILLEY:

         6    Q.    Your accreditation only relates to academics, correct?

         7    A.    No, sir.

         8    Q.    What does it relate to?

         9    A.    Palm Lane is accredited a Type 2 childcare facility

        10    under statute 409.176 of the Florida constitution.

        11    Q.    Okay.  But that's not an academic matter, is it?

        12    A.    No, sir.

        13    Q.    When you told the jury that the program was accredited,

        14    what were you trying to tell the jury that was accredited?

        15    A.    Sir, I did not tell them they were accredited.

        16    Q.    What did you say?

        17    A.    About what?

        18    Q.    About accreditation.

        19    A.    I don't recall saying anything particularly.  I asked

        20    you if you were asking me about accreditation.

        21    Q.    Did you not -- did you not just testify on redirect

        22    that Palm Lane had some sort of accreditation?

        23    A.    I read what was written on the things that were given

        24    here.

        25    Q.    But did you have personal knowledge about what you were

                                                                    II - 151

         1    reading?

         2    A.    Yes, sir.

         3    Q.    All right.  Is Palm Lane accredited by -- for academic

         4    subjects?

         5    A.    You're talking about Palm Lane?

         6    Q.    Correct.

         7    A.    No, sir.

         8    Q.    What's -- now, you said something about Florida

         9    association -- tell me what specific association you're

        10    talking about.

        11    A.    The Florida Association of Christian Childcare

        12    Agencies.

        13    Q.    Do you know who the principles are in this

        14    organization?

        15    A.    No, sir, I do not.

        16    Q.    Do you know how that -- now, what does this go by when

        17    you just speak in ordinary talking, do you say FACCA or do

        18    you say the whole term?  You say FACCA?

        19    A.    Yes, sir.

        20    Q.    FACCA.  How did you come to know that Palm Lane was

        21    accredited or had some affiliation with FACCA?

        22    A.    Well, through our handbook and through discussions with

        23    my superiors.

        24    Q.    What superiors?

        25    A.    Brother and Mrs. Wills.