Part 30

1 Q. Isn't it true there is no subject at Mountain Park that

2 students get credit except academic subjects such as math and

3 English?

4 A. That is not true.

5 Q. What are subjects that are not academic subjects but

6 they are such that the student gets credit for that subject?

7 A. We have bible study credit. For instance, you get an

8 elective credit for attending bible studies and churches. So

9 we do give a bible study, bible elective credit. You also

10 get credit for PE. We get credit, the PE, even though we may

11 not play basketball every day for an hour, but combined with

12 the work and the PE that we do in the afternoons, it is

13 granted an academic or PE credit.

14 Q. But you're not telling this jury that hauling wood is

15 PE, are you?

16 A. I'm saying that we get credit for the things that we do

17 in the afternoons. That would be physical things.

18 Q. But you're not telling this jury that wood hauling is

19 physical education, are you?

20 MR. BRIGGS: Objection, asked and answered.

21 MR. STILLEY: Your Honor, it's not been answered.

22 THE COURT: You may answer.

23 A. I will answer it the same way I just previously

24 answered the question. We get credit for or we give credit

25 for the activities that we do in the afternoons, whether it

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1 be playing ball, whatever physical activities it may be.

2 Q. That's not formal -- there's no formal program of that,

3 is there?

4 A. I guess I don't understand your question.

5 Q. There's no formal program whereby the person gets

6 credit for having hauled wood or fixed fences or other things

7 of that nature, correct?

8 A. I still don't understand your question. I'm just

9 ignorant to the phrasing. I don't understand.

10 Q. Now, when you graduated, you got transcripts, correct?

11 A. I did.

12 Q. And on that transcript it says things like math and

13 English, correct?

14 A. Yes, it does.

15 Q. And you got credit for that, correct?

16 A. Yes, I did.

17 Q. There's nothing on your transcript or anybody else's

18 transcript that says welding or plumbing or anything of that

19 nature, correct?

20 A. On my transcript it does not. I cannot speak for

21 anybody else's transcript.

22 Q. You have no personal knowledge of that?

23 A. I can only speak for my transcript. Not on my

24 transcript. I cannot speak for anybody else's transcript.

25 Q. You've been on paid staff for about eight years or at

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1 least eight years, correct?

2 A. I got on -- I was on paid staff as a junior staff

3 worker before I went to college. After I graduated from

4 college with my degree in education, I came back and was on

5 married staff, and now have been on married staff for almost

6 four years.

7 Q. So you've got a lot of experience at this school,

8 correct?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. If there was a formal program of welding education or

11 plumbing education or some other such program, you would have

12 knowledge of it, wouldn't you?

13 A. I guess I don't know the criteria of having a formal

14 program. I don't know the criteria for having a formal

15 program of it.

16 Q. You don't know the difference between a formal program

17 and just something that you do in afternoons?

18 A. I guess I do not.

19 Q. Okay. Well, you do know what shows up on transcripts,

20 don't you?

21 A. I know what's on my transcript, yes, I do.

22 Q. Well, you have access to other students' transcripts,

23 don't you?

24 A. I guess I don't typically look at other students'

25 transcripts.

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1 Q. That's not the question.

2 A. I guess I suppose if I wanted to get access, yes, I

3 could.

4 Q. You routinely get access to transcripts, don't you?

5 A. Not routinely, no.

6 Q. Whenever you want to, do you not?

7 A. Like I already answered, if I wanted it, I could.

8 Q. Have you ever seen a transcript from Mountain Park that

9 said anything about welding or plumbing or other courses such

10 as welding or plumbing?

11 A. No, sir, I have not seen that on any transcript.

12 Q. And you've looked at lots of transcripts, have you not?

13 A. A lot, that's pretty subjective. That's very relative.

14 A lot for some may be five. A lot for some may be 100.

15 Q. Can you tell the jury about how many of these

16 transcripts you've seen?

17 A. I haven't seen a whole lot of transcripts. I would say

18 maybe a dozen.

19 Q. Did you -- now, you told us you had learned some

20 general things while you were in high school; is that

21 correct?

22 A. Yes, that is correct.

23 Q. Did you actually -- whether or not you got credit for

24 it, did you learn anything about welding while you were in

25 high school?

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1 A. Yes, I did.

2 Q. Did you learn anything about plumbing while you were in

3 high school?

4 A. No, sir, I don't know much about plumbing.

5 Q. But that education was not gained through any formal

6 course of instruction, correct?

7 A. The things that I learned such as welding was taught by

8 someone I know had background and training in welding, and he

9 did teach it in a very formal way with teaching us how to get

10 started, how to mix the acetylene with the oxygen. It was

11 very formal. It wasn't just a fly-by-night thing. We had to

12 wear our goggles and our gloves and he went through the

13 procedures of how to do things. So in a way, yes, it was

14 formal in his instructions to teaching us how to do it.

15 Q. What's this gentleman's name?

16 A. His name was Matthew McFadden.

17 Q. Matthew McFadden, he's not a certified instructor for

18 welding, is he?

19 A. You'd have to ask Matthew McFadden. I do not know his

20 educational background.

21 Q. Mountain Park has no formal program or certified

22 program for welding, correct?

23 A. Again, like I said, I don't know.

24 Q. What about Palm Lane, do you have personal knowledge

25 about the operations of Palm Lane?

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1 A. Personal knowledge, to a very slight degree.

2 Q. Well, how many times have you been there?

3 A. I don't know how many times I've been on the property.

4 Q. Can you come close?

5 A. I'd say once again maybe 20 times.

6 Q. Have you helped to haul students there?

7 A. No, I have not.

8 Q. Have you ever rode to Palm Lane with a load of

9 students?

10 A. No, sir, I have not.

11 Q. Have you ever rode to Palm Lane with as many as one

12 student?

13 A. No, sir, I have not.

14 Q. Have you ever come from Palm Lane back to Mountain Park

15 with any students, one or more students?

16 A. Yes, sir, I have.

17 Q. And how often has that happened?

18 A. It has happened one time.

19 Q. You told us that you had been down there about 20

20 times. About how long do you spend each time?

21 A. Most of the time when I go to Palm Lane, I've been down

22 visiting my grandparents, Brother and Mrs. Wills on a

23 vacation. And we'll drive back and forth for church. And

24 that's about the extent of the times I've been there, back

25 and forth to church.

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1 Q. Now, but when you go for a trip, how many days do you

2 typically stay?

3 A. Stay on my vacation?

4 Q. Right.

5 A. I guess it depends how much time I have allotted. I've

6 stayed for as many as three days, and I've stayed as many as

7 ten days.

8 Q. Is ten days the most that you've spent at Palm Lane?

9 MR. BRIGGS: Your Honor, I'm going to object at this

10 point. This is totally outside the scope of direct under

11 Rule 613(b). Moreover, Your Honor, I don't think where he is

12 leading has any relevance to the two remaining claims in this

13 lawsuit.

14 MR. STILLEY: Your Honor, I'm just trying to

15 establish a basis of the knowledge about the operation of

16 Palm Lane, whether he has any knowledge or not.

17 THE COURT: Why don't you ask him about that and

18 stop asking him about his vacation. Sustained.

19 BY MR. STILLEY:

20 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge about the operations

21 of Palm Lane Academy?

22 A. I'll answer the question like I previously answered. I

23 have slight information about Palm Lane Academy.

24 Q. Have you ever worked on campus there?

25 A. No, I have not ever worked on the campus of Palm Lane.

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1 Q. Okay. You told us where your degree was from. Can you

2 tell us again?

3 A. I didn't understand the question.

4 Q. Where is your degree from?

5 A. My degree is from Crown Bible College in Powell,

6 Tennessee, right outside Knoxville, Tennessee.

7 Q. What was your major?

8 A. My major is secondary education, the field of physics.

9 Q. How long did you spend at Crown Bible College to get

10 your degree?

11 A. I was able to by God's grace get a four-year degree in

12 three years.

13 Q. And did you spend that time at Crown College?

14 A. Yes, sir, I spent the entire time at Crown College. I

15 took winter interims and summer interims. I was only home at

16 Mountain Park for a short period of time for Christmas and

17 short period of time in the summers. I have a minor in bible

18 also from Crown College.

19 Q. Now, I believe you testified on direct that you have

20 three different things that you're trying to instill in these

21 students: No. 1, biblical self image; No. 2, team work; and

22 No. 3, Christian values. Is that correct?

23 A. Yes, sir, those are three things we definitely try to

24 instill in our students.

25 Q. Are you trying to provide these students with life

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1 skills so they'll be able to successfully integrate into

2 society?

3 A. Yes, sir, we are.

4 Q. Are these students given any training on how to handle

5 money?

6 A. Yes, sir, they are.

7 Q. Are they allowed to have any money in their possession?

8 MR. BRIGGS: Objection, Your Honor, we went through

9 this yesterday.

10 MR. STILLEY: I'm asking about --

11 THE COURT: Hold on.

12 MR. STILLEY: I'm asking about the nature of the

13 training program that they have. It's in response to the

14 testimony on direct.

15 THE COURT: What testimony on direct about money?

16 MR. STILLEY: About what kind of things that they

17 are trying to instill in these students. They are saying

18 they are trying to teach life skills.

19 THE COURT: I'm sustaining that.

20 BY MR. STILLEY:

21 Q. And I believe you also testified that Mountain Park is

22 a college preparatory school?

23 A. We strive to provide a college preparatory diploma.

24 That is what we like to see our students once they graduate,

25 that's what we like to see them reach that goal in high

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1 school education. We certainly have diplomas that provide or

2 they can obtain if they do the work college preparatory as

3 well as honors diplomas.

4 Q. Do you keep statistics on how many students graduate

5 from Mountain Park and go on to college?

6 A. If there are, I don't have personal knowledge of it.

7 Q. Now, we saw a schedule. I'll get that back out here.

8 Now, you talked about the Mountain Park Baptist Boarding

9 Academy schedule, correct?

10 A. Yes, sir, I did.

11 Q. But you don't have any personal knowledge about the

12 Palm Lane -- the schedule at Palm Lane Academy, correct?

13 A. That is correct.

14 Q. When is the first time that you saw a document of this

15 nature, saw a schedule such as this sample daily schedule?

16 A. Oh, I can't give a date.

17 Q. Do you know when this document was created?

18 A. We've had it for a long time. I don't remember the

19 exact date that it was put in pen and paper.

20 Q. Did you play a part in the creation of this schedule?

21 A. No, sir, Brother Gerhardt -- I don't know who did it.

22 I would assume Brother Gerhardt probably created the

23 schedule.

24 Q. Okay. And when did you first see it?

25 A. I've already stated I don't remember the first time I

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1 laid eyes upon this particular schedule.

2 Q. Has it been less than a year?

3 A. This particular schedule probably has been less than a

4 year. We used to wake up at six o'clock and not 5:30.

5 Q. Less than six months?

6 A. No, sir, not less than six months.

7 Q. Now, the first thing here, let's look at the Monday

8 schedule. The first thing appears to indicate that a student

9 would be allowed 45 minutes for personal hygiene. Is that

10 true?

11 A. Yes, sir, that's very true.

12 Q. And what are they allowed to do during this period of

13 time?

14 A. I stated on direct that, and I'll restate once again

15 for the jury, this time is for a young man to brush his

16 teeth, shave his face, iron his clothes, do what every

17 individual in this room had to do this morning before they

18 got in their vehicle. The typical morning chores that just

19 about every person does in the morning time.

20 Q. Is it your testimony that the student is allowed to

21 allocate this time as the student sees fit?

22 MR. BRIGGS: Objection, Your Honor, I'm going to

23 object to the relevance grounds.

24 THE COURT: Sustained. Counsel, come up.

25 (The following proceedings were held at the bench